[speedski]

While I don't want this to turn into a 'don't buy one you'll hate it' thread I must admit, I am starting to look at the used EV market and wonder just how much longer I will hold out - is the use-case is very much valid for us as 95% of our travel is within 100 miles of home and we have a petrol for the long runs anyway.

Scenario for me is Company car option is 5 years commit, and in the time EV BIK will climb (notably) and the company doesn't allow you out in the 5 years unless you leave.

I take the allowance instead at the moment - after tax its about £20k over the term - I have the cash set aside since I got out of a car during covid, but now its getting more and more needed to have a second car.

I am sat looking at ID3's and Hyundai Kona's with approved used warranties at £19k with all the toys, Mini L3 at £19k, i3's at £18k, heck even the £40k Corsa EV's can be picked up for £20k brand new - same with the eTech megane.

The mini, while nice, is just too little range for us. ID3 and Megane currently top of mind.

But am I totally mad BUYING a EV for cash? I mean its already been gutted on value so just how much worse on value could it really get?

[boba-fett]

Get one when you need the mobility version of them.

[F30Andy]

Originally Posted by speedski

But am I totally mad BUYING a EV for cash? I mean its already been gutted on value so just how much worse on value could it really get?

Yes you are and let me tell you how bad it can get.

December 2022 - Purchased a (very highly specced) Taycan Turbo for £179k
May 2024 - Best offer I have had on it (and I approached everyone) was £72k.

Nearly a £110k loss in the space of less than 18 months.
Thats almost £6k a month this car has lost since we got it.

Something tells me this car will end up around the £40k mark within the next year.

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by speedski

While I don't want this to turn into a 'don't buy one you'll hate it' thread I must admit, I am starting to look at the used EV market and wonder just how much longer I will hold out - is the use-case is very much valid for us as 95% of our travel is within 100 miles of home and we have a petrol for the long runs anyway.

Scenario for me is Company car option is 5 years commit, and in the time EV BIK will climb (notably) and the company doesn't allow you out in the 5 years unless you leave.

I take the allowance instead at the moment - after tax its about £20k over the term - I have the cash set aside since I got out of a car during covid, but now its getting more and more needed to have a second car.

I am sat looking at ID3's and Hyundai Kona's with approved used warranties at £19k with all the toys, Mini L3 at £19k, i3's at £18k, heck even the £40k Corsa EV's can be picked up for £20k brand new - same with the eTech megane.

The mini, while nice, is just too little range for us. ID3 and Megane currently top of mind.

But am I totally mad BUYING a EV for cash? I mean its already been gutted on value so just how much worse on value could it really get?

No. Been thinking about it as well for a runabout. I think if we get one we'll end up salary sacrifice on an MG4, at just over £200 per month net.

BUT, my logic is, for example, you can pick up an Model 3 for well under £20k. Not necessarily my choice of car, but as runabout, does the job. Home charging and bugger all service costs means it won't cost much to run. If you sell in 4 years, it will still have a decent battery life, which means it's still a perfectly usable second car for someone. Say you get £8k for it, that's about £2.5k-3k per year costs, including depreciation. I don't think that's too bad

[Sennen]

OP there is a very obvious reason why companies like Vauxhall, Nissan, Jaguar etc are offering circa 40% off of their brand new EV products and that is outside of the 'Salary Boys' who can get BIK allowances no one in their right mind would want one.

You will get the usual suspects telling you about the £150 they are saving a month on fuel but never a whisper about the significant depreciation cost over IC. Anyone that buys any EV with their own hard earned needs to give their head a serious shake.

Prices on these White Elephants are only going one way and that is down the plughole very quickly. Save your money or buy something with a proper IC engine would be my advice but ETTO.

[Allworth]

Because you already optioned electric is a good choice, as world is very actively transforming for EVs. (who needs a kerosene lamp for lighting?).
If buying for cash is the fastest way of getting EV - just do it.

[speedski]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

Yes you are and let me tell you how bad it can get.

December 2022 - Purchased a (very highly specced) Taycan Turbo for £179k
May 2024 - Best offer I have had on it (and I approached everyone) was £72k.

Nearly a £110k loss in the space of less than 18 months.
Thats almost £6k a month this car has lost since we got it.

Something tells me this car will end up around the £40k mark within the next year.

I know the depreciation on those has been horrendous and it will only get worse with the new one. but its also a completely different market to the one I am looking at. At the same time, your numbers are the EXACT reason why I am looking. Its certainly a buyers market for them, not a sellers.

Originally Posted by Bryans69

No. Been thinking about it as well for a runabout. I think if we get one we'll end up salary sacrifice on an MG4, at just over £200 per month net.

BUT, my logic is, for example, you can pick up an Model 3 for well under £20k. Not necessarily my choice of car, but as runabout, does the job. Home charging and bugger all service costs means it won't cost much to run. If you sell in 4 years, it will still have a decent battery life, which means it's still a perfectly usable second car for someone. Say you get £8k for it, that's about £2.5k-3k per year costs, including depreciation. I don't think that's too bad

And thats exactly where I am at - the depreciation is horrendous, but if 50-60% has already gone from it, is £18-20k actually THAT bad.

Originally Posted by Sennen

OP there is a very obvious reason why companies like Vauxhall, Nissan, Jaguar etc are offering circa 40% off of their brand new EV products and that is outside of the 'Salary Boys' who can get BIK allowances no one in their right mind would want one.

You will get the usual suspects telling you about the £150 they are saving a month on fuel but never a whisper about the significant depreciation cost over IC. Anyone that buys any EV with their own hard earned needs to give their head a serious shake.

Prices on these White Elephants are only going one way and that is down the plughole very quickly. Save your money or buy something with a proper IC engine would be my advice but ETTO.

I think you miss the point - even with ICE cars have huge depreciation - although its not the cars those of this forum would usually have/buy.

The question is - if I buy an ICE for £20k in 5 years what would it be worth vs an EV - and before I wasn't in doubt, but its certainly looking like they won't be that far apart.

It got me looking when you look at the old sheds on pistonheads etc which are older ICE with £700+ road fund licenses. then when you do the maths on the big dropped products its hard not to see the appeal for the purpose of local runaround. (not track, spirited, BMW style use granted).

[davyk31]

An ID.3 at £18k to £20k would be a great buy for a daily runner. They are so capable and so easy to drive. Coming up to 3 years with mine and still think it’s perfect. Never seen so many people become so fixated on deprecation when they talk negatively about EVs, it’s like no other car drop money at all! Yes it’s relevant but it isn’t always the complete over riding factor for a car choice.

[C320]

A couple of years ago we were looking at buying a used Tesla Model 3.

However, the way the market is right now I simply wouldn't want to run an EV out of warranty. Tesla recently stopped selling their extended warranties in the UK (it was purported to be a very good warranty too!).

We now have an EV as our daily, an EQC 400 which we got on a great 2 yr lease deal. We still have the X5 40i for longer journey or 7 seat family duties.

Works really well for us so far (in fact the X5 hasn't had much use of late!), I believe that theres a place for EV's & hybrids but I believe the government have pushed it the wrong way, the market has spoken and the depreciation on most new EV's has been savage! List price on the EQC was close to £70k - thankfully the depreciation is not my risk given it's leased.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

Yes you are and let me tell you how bad it can get.

December 2022 - Purchased a (very highly specced) Taycan Turbo for £179k
May 2024 - Best offer I have had on it (and I approached everyone) was £72k.

Nearly a £110k loss in the space of less than 18 months.
Thats almost £6k a month this car has lost since we got it.

Something tells me this car will end up around the £40k mark within the next year.

You must be in a position to be able to take that hit as you are Taycaning it very well, I would be near suicidal!

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

Yes you are and let me tell you how bad it can get.

December 2022 - Purchased a (very highly specced) Taycan Turbo for £179k
May 2024 - Best offer I have had on it (and I approached everyone) was £72k.

Nearly a £110k loss in the space of less than 18 months.
Thats almost £6k a month this car has lost since we got it.

Something tells me this car will end up around the £40k mark within the next year.

Absolutely brutal.

[lethbridge]

I always dailyed my M3 but when my son was changing their 2nd car Micra out for a 1 series I bought it off of them. I bought it new in 2014 for my sons and then daughter-in-law to learn to drive in as it was the best value for insurance and have maintained it since - it costs £100/annum to run + cheap insurance. I now use it for all local trips which avoids constant worry of car park dings etc. - it’s almost cathartic!

Why the story - well it confirms there is space in your garage for something pretty unpleasant and probably at the opposite end of the spectrum to what your main car is - it does the heavy lifting, takes the car park scratches, speed bumps, etc. and I just don’t care about it (although it still is in very good condition in reality). It also paves the way to change the M3 for something less practical at some stage and keeps some of the mileage based depreciation off of those kinds of cars.

If the Micra got written off I would replace it and I would strongly consider an EV as I have the perfect use case for it. Issue is my Micra cost £3800 (if I ignore the £12k I paid for it new as well but that was different!) and I don’t need to waste money on a warranty and insurance is really cheap - it costs me £30 tax, £40 MOT and £40 oil/filter. Perhaps I’ll be in the market for a 2nd hand EV in 5 years @ £5k but I wouldn’t splash £20k on the same car today as I think I’d have to warranty that level of spend on newish tech which seems to be part behind big depreciation and I would have a stab at a worst case that it might drop £15k in 5 years. The warranty and insurance costs would be quite notable I suspect so much as I’d like to consider an EV for my use case I don’t think it would make financial sense yet - maybe in 5 years.

I think most people would agree that EVs are not cheaper to run than comparable ICEs if you take all costs into account over the planned ownership term unless you can get one as a company car. There remains a lot of market uncertainty so I for one am happy to wait for that to wash through before sinking money into a necessary evil.

The OP’s use case is slightly different to mine I think in that he wants a better car than I’m happy to make do with and that does change the argument slightly as the EVs he will be looking at will be a whole heap nicer places to be than my Micra!

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by davyk31

An ID.3 at £18k to £20k would be a great buy for a daily runner. They are so capable and so easy to drive. Coming up to 3 years with mine and still think it’s perfect. Never seen so many people become so fixated on deprecation when they talk negatively about EVs, it’s like no other car drop money at all! Yes it’s relevant but it isn’t always the complete over riding factor for a car choice.

You can get a 2023 plate ID3 on autotrader from £20k. I know sweet fa about ev's but that's 50% depreciation in a year or less, isn't it? Staggering. Good value as a cash buy even if they continue to tumble...

[F30Andy]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

You must be in a position to be able to take that hit as you are Taycaning it very well, I would be near suicidal!

Being in a position or not, it is still a hell of a bitter pill to swallow.

Like many other people that purchased them, it was only purchased to climb up the ladder on the waiting list for something else (that is NOT electric!)

The reason for the glut of them on the market is exactly because of this.
People that wanted 911 Turbos and GT3's etc got them, kept them registered for a year and are now all offloading them at the same time.

Originally Posted by Watsey

Absolutely brutal.

So my accountant keeps telling me!

[C320]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

Like many other people that purchased them, it was only purchased to climb up the ladder on the waiting list for something else (that is NOT electric!)

Ah, yes the old Porsche condition, 'you must have well established buying history' before possibly being able to order a GT car.

[speedski]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

You can get a 2023 plate ID3 on autotrader from £20k. I know sweet fa about ev's but that's 50% depreciation in a year or less, isn't it? Staggering. Good value as a cash buy even if they continue to tumble...

And this is the big thing with the ID3 especially...

Approved Used = 2 year warranty, 2 years roadside
Battery still has 6yrs or up to 100,000 miles (and guaranteed 70% capacity).

It really is a very tempting prospect all of a sudden.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by speedski

And this is the big thing with the ID3 especially...

Approved Used = 2 year warranty, 2 years roadside
Battery still has 6yrs or up to 100,000 miles (and guaranteed 70% capacity).

It really is a very tempting prospect all of a sudden.

Yes it is. Although for a 2nd car, run around, I'd still rather have a Mk8 Fiesta. Something like this one. Peanuts to run and fun to drive..

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310122931671

[JD6]

Originally Posted by F30Andy

The reason for the glut of them on the market is exactly because of this.
People that wanted 911 Turbos and GT3's etc got them, kept them registered for a year and are now all offloading them at the same time.

I know that GT cars (+ Dakar, S/T…) are generally only available to order for those with a buying history (except sometimes the GT4) but I thought the 911 Turbo, Turbo S were available to anyone?

Presumably the Taycan was bought as a company car, with the associated tax benefits, rather than a private purchase.

[isleaiw1]

Just back from a 300 mile weekend in my EV. Absolutely loved it. Depreciation locked in at £25k ish over 4 years, so £500 ish a month for a 400ps, awd, luxury car that can do 300 miles on £40 max charge cost... no tax breaks other than RFL for me as its a personal car but I cant see me buying anything other than another EV in 2 years when this goes back - and with lower prices on purchase and presumably lower residuals I expect a similar cost position....

F30Andy if I needed it now I'd give you £73k for the Taycan...

[robbiep]

I'm not going to say "DO IT", a la Palpatine, or "NOOOOO" (like Luke).

First, disclosure : We've both gone EV - so I have an agenda, self-justification, whatever

I've got an e-Golf. Summer range 140-150 miles. Does me perfectly.

My wife has a Kia Nero - 2021 car, 64kWh battery. Range 250+ miles
Her car is identical running gear and battery to the Kona, but a LOT nicer and better quality to be in

Ideally, you need a proper home (7kW) chargepoint, and a smart meter. Do that, and running costs are buttons with a decent tariff. Budget anything up to £1k for one.

Now charging infrastructure and 'niggles' :

Here's a road trip we did last week .

Sunday. North Wales to Poole. Stopped for 45 minutes for a bite to eat just outside Bristol, charged up at a rapid paying 65p/kWh (that stings, especially when our home charging costs are more like 12p/kWh). Down on to Poole, with a stop off at Cerne Abbas.

Monday, drove to Stonehenge. Stopped at the Tesla superchargers at Amesbury, put on charge (at 41p/kWh) while we had lunch.

Back down to Bournemouth to see relatives, then Poole overnight at a hotel (topped up to just under 90% charge while having dinner in our hotel), for our ferry to Jersey - left the car in Poole, took bikes out of the car, as we didn't see the need to take a car to Jersey, and we both like cycling.

So car sits in Poole (left at 232 mile range) from Tuesday morning until Saturday afternoon. When it still has the same 232 mile range.

Saturday late afternoon : drive to Yeovil to see friends. No need to charge up.

Sunday morning. Drive back. Stop at Gloucester services for 40 minutes for brunch / charge up. Drive back to North Wales. Get home with 28% / 87 mile range. Plug in car.

It really is that easy. Our meal / charging stops were maybe 10 minutes longer than they would have been with petrol / diesel, but that's it.

In total, just under 700 miles covered

Now, annoyances :

Charging apps. Some EV chargers don't appear on some maps, some you've got to have this app or that app (yes, BP Pulse, I'm looking at you). Some will work via RFID card, some insist they only work through their app. Some have special pricing if you go this app, or that app, or ...... ARGGGH.

But that's public rapid charging. A pain in the rectum. I've got 10 (yes, TEN) charging apps on my bloody phone.

On second thoughts .... DO IT !

[boba-fett]

I've got a brand new Jag F-Pace P400e R-Dynamic SE black (thats a long name) and as a sporty SUV I can't fault it, it does everything well except stir any emotion. The V8 sound it pipes through the speakers is quite convincing at first as well!

The interior is not what I would call high quality and a nice place to be for an expensive car, and I was commenting on how nippy it is for such a big thing, in fact I think if driven hard its to nippy for the rest of the cars weight, brakes, chassis and tyre profile! If you are really going for it, which it cocoons you and encourages you to do, it makes the car shrink around you, so you can forget about the size and weight. You can easily get this to squirrel, weight drift and fade its brakes.

I should imagine there is quite a few EV's like this, to much go for the rest of the car?

[KRS_SN]

The battery warranty is solid. It's worth checking about the electrics the wiring looms the charging ports the ecu the idrive screens etc. I was surprised to learn some /many EV brands do not have ongoing warranty for these past the manufacturer warranty. It's cheap for a reason. But the EV experience for commuting in the UK if you have home charging is just worth it.